N.E.R.D.S Read Chamber of Secrets

Postby **Poppy** » September 29th, 2014, 1:15 am

Congratulations on finishing Philosopher Stone and welcome to N.E.R.D.S's (Never Ending Reading Discussion Society) read Chamber of Secrets! Every fortnight or so we will read two chapters and discuss them.

Hermione made a stamp for your signatures! Here is the link:

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[img]http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h381/HermioneLeviosa/NERDSstamp_zps7cc03dfe.png[/img]

Here is the stamp with N.E.R.D.S. thread link embedded:

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[url=http://www.pottermoreforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=290907#p290907][img]http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h381/HermioneLeviosa/NERDSstamp_zps7cc03dfe.png[/img][/url]

Members:
~Ashdust
~HermioneLeviosa
~Poppy
~SleepyHead
~RiverFirebolt

This week we are reading chapter five and chapter six.

Chapter 5 – The Whomping Willow
Quick Facts:
Narration: Third person (Harry’s P.O.V)
When: August 30 1992 – September 1st 1992
Settings: The Burrow, Ford Anglia Car, King’s Cross, Hogwarts Grounds, Snape’s office and Gryffindor common room.
Characters: Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, Molly Weasley, Fred Weasley, George Weasley, Arthur Weasley, Ginny Weasley, Percy Weasley, Hedwig, Scabbers, Minerva McGonagall, Sorting Hat, Hermione Granger, Gilderoy Lockhart, Rebeus Hagrid, Severus Snape, Albus Dumbledore, Lee Jordan, Dean Thomas, Seamus Finnigan and Neville Longbottom.
Mentioned Characters: Dursleys and Trolley witch.

Chapter 6 – Gilderoy Lockart
Quick Facts:
Narration: Third person (Harry’s P.O.V)
When: September 2nd 1992
Settings: Great Hall, Greenhouses, Courtyard, Transfiguration classroom and Defense Against the Dark Arts classroom.
Characters: Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, Hermione Granger, Neville Longbottom, Gilderoy Lockart, Draco Malfoy, Errol, Pomona Sprout, Justin Finch-Fletchley, Colin Creevey, Gregory Goyle, Vincent Crabbe, Seamus Finnigan and Dean Thomas.
Mentioned Characters: Augusta Longbottom, Molly Weasley, Arthur Weasley, Albus Dumbledore, Voldemort, Justin’s mum, Colin’s dad and Ginny Weasley.

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Chapter Questions:

1)   Did you enjoy ‘The Whomping Willow’? Did Harry and Ron’s stupidity drive you crazy?
2)   Did you enjoy ‘Gilderoy Lockart’?
3)   Do you think Molly really wouldn’t of gotten Ron a new wand if he owled for one? Having a broken wand for a whole year negatively impacted Ron’s grades. 
4)   Surely Harry would off already come across a Howler by now? I doubt that Ron is the first person to receive one since they joined Hogwarts. Neville even says ‘My Gran sent me one once.’ And I’m sure Fred and George have gotten a fair few…
5)   Do you think that Dobby had anything to do with the fact that the Invisibility button wasn’t working?
6)   Upon rereading this chapter, did you feel sorry for the other characters? Hermione was probably sitting by herself in a compartment for seven hours wondering where Harry and Ron were. Molly and Arthur were probably freaking out about where Harry and Ron were and they couldn’t get out of the station for a while. They then saw that their means of getting home was gone. 
7)   Where did Arthur know how to drive from? 
8)   Do you think that Arthur knew that the car would gain a personality once he charmed it? 
9)   I’ve been thinking about what River said last chapter about the Gnomes. It seems to me that Arthur is a softie when it comes to creatures while Molly doesn’t treat them as well. Arthur feels sorry for the gnomes, Molly doesn’t. Molly sends Errol on a trip even though she knows he is in no condition to make that trip. It seems like the children follow Molly’s footsteps, Ron isn’t concerned about Errol and later on House Elf conditions. Do you agree?
10)    I’m a bit surprised that Colin Creevey is the first time someone asked Harry for a photo. Harry is one of the most popular wizards, wouldn’t a lot more people want proof they met him?

What are your thoughts?

Previous chapters:
Chapter 1 and 2:

Spoiler: show

Chapters 3 and 4:

Spoiler: show

Postby **Ashdust** » October 2nd, 2014, 5:15 am

So glad this is back Poppy.

Was going to wait for someone else to go first, but figured we would be here forever if we all did that. So my thoughts...

Spoiler: show

Postby **Hermione Leviosa** » October 4th, 2014, 9:47 pm

Thank you Poppy for starting this.

I changed the link for the stamp so that is brings the clicker here.

1. I do like the first chapter. Even though J.K. Rowling summarizes the first book in this chapter she does it in a way that is like what I would do any way look back and remember in anticipation of comparing this year to the adventure of the year before.

In Brittan I believe that owls are considered bad luck. Did Vernon not like seeing the owls because of that? :?:

I liked this line: "'Do I look stupid?' snarled Uncle Vernon, a bit of fried egg dangling from his bushy mustache." -- YES you do! LOL

Petunia must be self conscious of being thin because she takes pleasure in seeing Dudley obese. :?:

Why does Harry care if the Dursley's remember his birthday now that he has a family at Hogwarts? :?:

I get that he is more heightened to loneliness now that he has spent a year at Hogwarts among friends. I find it rather amusing that Vernon has the dinner party planned & scripted out by the minute, complete with dinner jackets and a cocktail dress. Could Dudley be more obvious that he is sucking up by naming Mr. Mason as his hero!? Why does Vernon pick Majorca as a vacation spot? Could it be because it is an island where they didn't have to hide Harry? Harry thinks on opening Hedwig's cage with magic yet his wand is locked in the cupboard. Can Harry open the cage wand-less? Maybe he thinks magic is the only way to open the cage because he wouldn't think of opening it by "evil" means like stealing the key or picking the lock.

I liked this line where Harry says to Dudley: "So you've finally learned the days of the week."

2. Every time I read Dobby's Warning I get nervous; and I feel like making Dobby calm down myself.

3. I think that Lily probably kept everything about the wizarding world to herself subconsciously or consciously knowing Petunia was jealous and left out. Therefore, the subject of underage magic never came up.

4. I am not sure how the Elf laws work. I am guessing that he is not allowed to do >anything< that is against his masters. Therefore, telling Harry outright about Malfoy's plan to kill non-purebloods would be bad. However, Dobby is desperate to do something to prevent "The Chosen One" from being harmed by the evil plan. Dobby apparently thought that keeping Harry from going to Hogwarts would solve the problem. Dobby didn't just react to the information; he had thought it out starting with stopping Harry's letters over the summer months. Maybe Dobby went to Harry thinking that all he had to do was play the card that Harry didn't have friend card on Harry to convince Harry to stay away from Hogwarts. However, many things happened that caused Dobby's plan to backfire. First he didn't expect to be treated with kindness which led him to reveal that as a house-elf he wasn't allowed to do anything against his master. That bit of knowledge let Harry to question Dobby deeper about why Dobby was beating himself. In addition, Harry picked up upon Dobby knowing he didn't receive any letters. Harry does seem to be very good at picking up when people reveal things they shouldn’t know. I admire Harry’s honesty in saying he can’t promise he would not to Hogwarts. I believe if it were Draco, he would lie and tell Dobby that he wouldn’t go to Hogwarts yet still go.

5. I believe he used magic, maybe something like a summoning spell. House-elves have powerful magic that I believe to be suppressed by wizards who own them.

I thought the fact that Mrs. Mason being afraid of birds is an odd bit of information. I wonder if Harry ever had to go the bathroom more than the 2 times he was allowed per day when he was locked up.

6. I consider a 1 year old a baby, so I don’t see the inconsistency. Grindewald is second to Voldemort.

7. I don’t think Dobby know about the horcruxes. I think he just thinks his master, Lucious Mayfoy, is not a decent wizard that is planning to kill all non-purebloods.

8. I was appalled... However, I think it was intended that we see that even though Harry no longer lives in the cupboard and has a room; he is still treated badly. Harry in my mind represents all those that go through bad things. If Harry can survive and find a place like Hogwarts, friends, and most importantly love, than we can too.

Postby **MrSleepyHead** » October 25th, 2014, 1:58 pm

Goodness, I can't believe three weeks have passed since I last meant to respond to this. The past 2.5 weeks have been incredibly busy for me, so I am just now getting to it. Sorry for the delay, but thanks for setting it all up.

Did you enjoy ‘The Worst Birthday’? Do you like how JK Rowling quickly summarized the first book?

I think JKR does a consistently good job in reintroducing the story and characters in each book (eventually dissipating to the point where it's not even needed). The synopsis in CoS may stand out a bit more than in the following books, but it fits as the second book. 'The Worst Birthday' is a short chapter largely devoted to summary, and I think it works: it puts us as readers in Harry's shoes, longing for the adventure and magic of Hogwarts while painfully stuck in Privet Drive.

Did you enjoy ‘Dobby’s Warning’?

This is a great chapter. Dobby is an excellent introduction and a relief to bring magic to Number Four. JKR does a great job of introducing urgency and stealth into what could otherwise be a relatively dull conversation between Dobby and Harry. As it is, the silence with which Harry must act limits the information we can get out of Dobby, which really sets the stage for the discovery of this book. I must admit, though, that this is one scene with which I feel the film version almost trumped the book: the film does a great job adding humor to this very pressured situation, while still getting across the urgency and information.

Surely Petunia remembered that you are not allowed to do magic outside of Hogwarts? Unless the rules have changed since Lily went?

She states in SS/PS that Lily "came home every vacation with her pockets full of frog spawn, turning teacups into rats" (SS, Ch. 4, Pg. 53, American). And JKR commented on this:

jkrowling.com, F.A.Q. wrote:In "Philosopher's Stone" Aunt Petunia says that Lily came back from Hogwarts with frog spawn in her pockets and turned teacups into rats. If this is true, why wasn't Lily expelled?

Aunt Petunia is exaggerating a little; you have to allow for her state of mind when she started shrieking these things. However, just like her son, Lily was not averse to testing the limits of the Statute of Secrecy, so you can safely assume she will have had a few warning letters – nothing too serious, though.

I also think Petunia was so far removed from the realities of magic that her limited encounters with Lily's (and Snape's) magic had festered and become something more fantastical and overblown than reality. Thus, it is easy for me to rationalize that Petunia may have no longer remembered that students weren't technically allowed to use magic outside of school (if she had ever truly known in the first place).

How do you think Elf Laws work? Dobby is not able to tell Harry what the danger is yet he is able to come and warn Harry. Did he get a direct order not to tell people? Was he even meant to know?

As I understand it, if a house-elf is given a direct order (e.g. clean the oven), the house-elf must obey: it will clean the oven. But unless it is ordered "to clean every last crumb and scorch mark off the oven so that the metal is untarnished and shows your reflection" then I think the house-elf could get away with sweeping the crumbs out and running it over with a clean rag. But the elf would know that that "cleaning" isn't what its master truly wanted, so it would have to punish itself. However, the elf would have to do at least the minimum to fulfill the command because of its boundedness to its masters. Therefore, I imagine that even the Malfoys may have had the presence of mind to order Dobby to tell no one about Lucius's plan (wording it such that mentioned the Chamber of Secrets, the diary, and the Weasleys - or, as Ashdust suggests, an inability to divulge any masters' secrets), so Dobby could not tell Harry the details of the danger. But he could warn Harry about the dangers and even lead Harry to the conclusion of Tom Riddle. Dobby would know that this sort of warning was implicit in his command not to tell, hence why he would have to punish himself (as well as because he left the house). But as long as he wasn't explicitly forbidden to say something, he could do so (though I also think he couldn't just play a yes/no, hot/cold game with Harry, otherwise the Malfoys would have gotten much more out of Kreacher than they did).

Come to think of it, I wonder if the Malfoys ever found out that Dobby did warn Harry (or at least leave the house). If so, they may have realized that house-elves were bound only by explicit commands, hence why they were able to utilize Kreacher so well.

Does Dobby have an elf spell which can intercept all of Harry’s mail? Or did he stand outside of Harry’s house each day and intercept it? Can’t see how that’s possible…

I imagine there is some magical way of intercepting post. He was able to make the pudding float, so I imagine he had similar powers to wizard's magic, including Summoning or immobilizing.

It's interesting that the Ministry of Magic registered Dobby's magic as a Hover Charm, indicating that some elf magic is not so different from wizard's magic (though they may have other advances or disadvantages), or else that elves can mask their magic as that of wizards.

“At the age of one years old, Harry had somehow survived a curse from the greatest Dark sorcerer of all time, Lord Voldemort.” Firstly, in the first book Harry is a baby when it occurs, inconsistency. Secondly, does this mean that Voldemort was greater than Grindewald?

Harry is one year and three months old when Voldemort came calling. Remember that Lily and James celebrated his birthday while in hiding (Lily's letter to Sirius in DH). I would still classify that age as a baby.

And I think it is accepted in the wizarding world (or, at least, in Britain) that Voldemort was worse than Grindelwald. As Rita says in her book, "in a list of Most Dangerous Dark Wizards of All Time, he would miss out on the top spot only because You-Know-Who arrived, a generation later, to steal his crown" (DH).

“There are powers Dumbledore doesn’t… powers no decent wizard…” Do you think Dobby knows about the horcruxes?

This is a great point, and I do wonder. Dumbledore does not think Lucius or Bellatrix knew that their entrusted items were Horcruxes, though, so it would be interesting if Dobby made the connection where Dark wizards did not. And I would agree with Dumbledore. In that case, if Lucius didn't know the diary was a Horcrux, why would Dobby punish himself before letting slip the secret of those powers? It seems to me that he had to stop short to punish himself before he betrayed his master's secret/command, which could be about the diary having the power to open the Chamber of Secrets but nothing more sinister. Dobby did connect the 'plot' to Tom Riddle, though. No matter what, this likely means that he associated the opening of the Chamber of Secrets with magic from Voldemort encased in Tom Riddle's diary. But it would be another step (and one that Lucius himself didn't even make) to connect that with Horcruxes. It's a great suggestion, though, and one with potential. But I think Dobby is referring to the powers decency of opening the Chamber of Secrets using inevitably Dark magic (associated with Lucius and Voldemort, after all) that Dumbledore lacked, though, not explicitly Horcruxes.

8) What do you think about the fact that Petunia tried to hit him with a frying pan? Didn’t expect that from Petunia...[/code]

I think Ashdust makes a good point that the Dursleys are portrayed a bit cartoon-y here. Though I think it may also be overblown description from Harry: it seems likely that Petunia swung without any intention of actually hitting Harry. However, overblown description is justified, as swinging a frying pan at a child really is unacceptable. But we see the Dursleys devolve into truly neglectful and abusive measures. It surprises me that they didn't simply destroy his school stuff. Perhaps they stopped short worrying that they would run into trouble somehow and it was better to keep it under lock and key rather than 'letting it loose' (just like trying to run from the magic of the letters).

If there is an inconsistency in this set of chapters, it's the one noted by Ashdust and Hermione Leviosa: Harry's consideration of magicking himself and Hedwig out of their situation. Perhaps his experience with emotional magic prior to going to Hogwarts made him feel sure that, if pushed far enough, he could use wandless magic to achieve a goal. However, it's also likely that (at least in regards to Hedwig's cage at the beginning, prior to being locked in his room) he thought of somehow unlocking his trunk and wand using Muggle means. As for magicking himself out in his locked and barred room, I think he could only depend on desperate wandless magic, though he had little experience to expect that he could control or command it.

Postby **Riverfirebolt** » October 26th, 2014, 7:26 pm

1) Did you enjoy ‘The Worst Birthday’? Do you like how JK Rowling quickly summarized the first book?
As a kid I quite enjoyed it, now knowing the story so well I find the summarising a bit dull, not sure I agree it was necessary at this stage, personally I would prefer a two or three page summary at the start of the book, which you could choose to skip if you want as you know it doesn't contain anything new.

I do agree with Ash though Harry's bit about staying in his room, making no noise, pretending he isn't there still makes me laugh now. I wish they had made more of that in the film.

As to Hermione's questions... "Why does Vernon pick Majorca as a vacation spot? " Seriously amongst middle class British people this is what they aspire to a holiday home somewhere in Spain. Majorca is the place that the ones who think they are quite posh want to have a home in.

The bit about Harry's birthday, maybe he is really upset about not hearing from his friends and then the Dursley's forgetting his birthday totally just makes it worse?

And the owls... "In Brittan I believe that owls are considered bad luck. Did Vernon not like seeing the owls because of that?" Truthfully never heard of this, I think the owls are just a reminder of how odd Harry is, plus Vernon is scared people will notice and find out their secret.

2) Did you enjoy ‘Dobby’s Warning’?
I do like this chapter, like Ash said I like reading it now with hindsight knowing what Dobby is trying to get across.

3) Surely Petunia remembered that you are not allowed to do magic outside of Hogwarts? Unless the rules have changed since Lily went?
I hadn't seen the quote from J K Rowling that MrSleepyHead has posted, but it makes sense, I expect Lily did do magic and did get warned about it. I also agree that Petunia may not have been told when Lily got warning letters or may have blocked it out.
I never thought about Ash's point that she may have got away with more too as there may have been other wizarding families nearby, plus the Ministry weren't as interested in Lily as they were in Harry.
There is also the fact that Lily was at Hogwarts during the first wizarding war and the Ministry may have had other things on their minds right then...

4) How do you think Elf Laws work? Dobby is not able to tell Harry what the danger is yet he is able to come and warn Harry. Did he get a direct order not to tell people? Was he even meant to know?
I agree with the others here, I think MrSleepyHead explains it much better than I could... He could go and warn Harry because he hasn't been directly told not to, but he had to punish himself as he knew he was going against what his masters would have wanted.
As to whether he was meant to know...I agree with Ash, I expect the Malfoys never thought about him and certainly never even considered the possibility that he would betray them.

Which does bring me to a question...why did he go and warn Harry? He must have heard the Malfoys plotting evil stuff in the past, he had never met Harry...so why go against years of training and everything he had been taught to warn Harry? Especially as Harry wasn't the original target of the plan? Why not warn Dumbledore?

5) Does Dobby have an elf spell which can intercept all of Harry’s mail? Or did he stand outside of Harry’s house each day and intercept it? Can’t see how that’s possible…
No idea about this. I guess we are just meant to assume House Elves have powerful magic and can do stuff like this. Reminds me of the Hagrid flying to The Hut on the Rock in the first book. There is no explanation, at this point in the story we just assume there is a way of doing this, on reading the books for the first time I doubt many people sat and thought about how Dobby could do this...it is only as we learn more about the laws governing magic that we come back to this and think how is that possible?

6) “At the age of one years old, Harry had somehow survived a curse from the greatest Dark sorcerer of all time, Lord Voldemort.” Firstly, in the first book Harry is a baby when it occurs, inconsistency. Secondly, does this mean that Voldemort was greater than Grindewald?
I agree with the others on this Harry is just over a year old, still a baby to me. Although in the first film he does maybe look younger.

7) “There are powers Dumbledore doesn’t… powers no decent wizard…” Do you think Dobby knows about the horcruxes?
Nope. Pretty sure he is just referring to Voldemort's diary being used to open the chamber and kill mudbloods. Like the others have said I am sure Lucius wouldn't be using the diary if he knew it was a horcrux, so how would Dobby know?

8) What do you think about the fact that Petunia tried to hit him with a frying pan? Didn’t expect that from Petunia...
Have to agree with Ash here, this always makes me think of a Tom and Jerry cartoon.
I do agree the Dursleys behaviour towards Harry is worse in this book. In response to MrSleepyHeadspoint about why they didn't destroy his school stuff? I also think they would be scared to, they don't realise at this point he can't do magic out of school...They do get braver and meaner once they realise Harry can't do magic.
I think Hermione has a good point in that we are meant to see Harry is still treated badly even though he isn't in the cupboard anymore.
I also agree with Ash, I think maybe at the start of the first book although they didn't like Harry they still had hopes that they could stop him going to Hogwarts and thought they could prevent him from becoming involved in the wizarding world. In this book, they knew he was always going to be magical and so they were scared of him, plus they had nearly a year without him, so must have resented him coming back to live with them again. So they are meaner to him.

About Ash's question about the flying car...I think, I may be wrong, but if I remember rightly, it took magic to enchant it initially, performed by Mr Weasley, but not to actually fly it. So the Ministry wouldn't detect it.

And the whole unlocking Hedwig's cage...in the book it says "Countless times, Harry had been on the point of unlocking Hedwig's cage by magic..." Doesn't explain exactly how though.

Postby **Poppy** » November 29th, 2014, 11:30 pm

Great thoughts on chapter 1 and 2.

I've put up chapter 3 and 4, I didn't have to many discussion thoughts on them so hopefully you guys do!
There is also a chapter puzzle... 5 anagrams... first person to complete them will earn 250 PFF points.

Postby **MrSleepyHead** » November 30th, 2014, 12:16 pm

Thoughts on Chapters 3-4:

Did you enjoy ‘The Burrow’? Did you enjoy your introduction to The Burrow?

This chapter is a great lead-in to one of the best settings in all the series, for me. The Burrow is great fun: I'm glad this book lets us experience life in a wizarding household, especially with a miserable time at Privet Drive for stark contrast. Harry's time at the Burrow makes me long for the wizarding world even more than Hogwarts because it seems so tangible and organic. It doesn't seem all that odd to have a clock telling the family's locations, or a talking mirror, or self-scrubbing dishes. Hogwarts has enough reality to make magic seem possible; the Burrow takes the mundane and every-day of our lives and adds a touch of magic that seems almost likely and just beyond our fingertips.

Did you enjoy ‘At Flourish and Blotts’?

This is the chapter we really get to experience several wizarding locations in more depth - the Burrow, Knockturn Alley, and Diagon Alley the Burrow - so it is among my favorites of the book. Throughout the series we are somewhat limited to the greater wizarding world by Harry's perspective, and while we are here, too, it is refreshing to experience some of the diversity within that world.

Isn’t floo powder an invasion of privacy? Unless I understand it wrong, if you’re connected to the system you can floo to anyone else’s house if they are also connected. Also, when you are going to your destination you get a peek at other people’s houses. What if they are getting changed or something?

It certainly has that potential, though I wonder if it is considered an invasion if the households consent to the method. And it doesn't seem like the method would work without many wizarding households, as the user is truly transported through a network of floos: from floo to floo, if you will. Based on Harry's description, the individual fireplaces whiz by veryquickly, so it is not as if the user has a long look at the surrounding room. But there are clear caveats that speak more to the community and openness of wizards, in my opinion. The only thing seemingly preventing one from Apparating into a stranger's living room seems to be politeness (not that there aren't enchantments to prevent it, if need be), and so it is with the Floo Network: one could simply call out "The Burrow" and show up in the Weasleys' living room when they choose. Granted, Pottermore explained that wizarding households could disconnect their fireplace with "a simple spell," but that limits communication, and I wonder if enough houses disconnect if the Network functions at all (e.g. how many households are needed to maintain the Network?).

I think there is more detail to be uncovered about the innerworkings of the Floo Network, even with the new information from Pottermore. We know that the Ministry regulates it (Floo Network Authority, Department of Magical Transportation) and can connect/disconnect Muggle (and likely wizarding) households and monitor use. But it would be interesting to know more about their control, how it actually works (granted, this would probably require years of magical theory education!), etc. The Floo Powder information from Pottermore made me wonder if the Ministry subsidizes Floo Powder (constant price for over a century, closely guarded, monopolized by one company in Britain [Floo-Pow]). The advantages included in the Floo Network information on Pottermore include transport of children with little fear of injury, but what about severe misplacement based upon poor speech? What do speech-impaired wizards/witches do about Floo Powder? How does the Floo Network deal with strong accents and languages (the same question could be said of incantations, with which we know enunciation is important)? We know that there is some connection control at the household level, such as disconnecting it at night, etc. But then one would limit receiving emergency communication, as the Floo Network interestingly works as both transportation and communication. The Floo Network's caveats highlight how inefficient wizarding transport tends to be, which I think is great as it shows that even magic has constraints.

How did Dumbledore know Harry was the Weasley’s? Did Miss Figg’s tell him?

There seem to be more sophisticated methods of magical tracking, such as that used by the Weasleys' clock, Hagrid/Dumbledore to address Harry's first year Hogwarts letters so specifically, or the Marauder's Map. To my knowledge, we aren't told what exactly these are. We know of the Trace and Homenum Revelio: perhaps the theory behind the latter can be personalized for specific people in some manner.

“small explosions from Fred and George’s bedroom were considered perfectly normal.” In the last book, Fred and George complained about receiving the notice about no underage magic outside of Hogwarts. Yet doesn’t the above quote suggest that they have been using underage magic?

Fred and George show repeatedly they don't really care about school rules, so it's unsurprising that they would disregard this. Perhaps they tried it initially and, when unpunished by Hogwarts or the Ministry, continued to do it. Despite Harry's ignorance about the Trace, it wouldn't surprise me that Fred and George would have known about it and realized the Ministry couldn't tell if they or their parents were doing the magic. What's stranger, to me, is that Molly allows it.

Did Harry go into a vanishing cabinet? If he did, why didn’t he vanish?

I believe so. It's described as a "large black cabinet" and referenced again in HBP when the trio follows Draco to Borgin and Burkes. And we see Hogwarts one later in this same book: no wonder JKR made such a strong connection between CoS and HBP!

We don't know the specifics about how the Vanishing Cabinet works: it could be that the user has to say a spell to transport between a pair. When Montague was shoved in the broken Hogwarts one in OotP he could hear goings-on from both sides, but that is not altogether informative when it was broken. Regardless, nothing happened (or could have happened), as I see it, because Harry did not close the doors completely: he left "a small crack to peer through."

Anagram solutions:

Spoiler: show

Some of my own questions:

Was anyone surprised that Ron, too, was able to pick a lock "the Muggle way": I expect it from Fred and George, but didn't think they would have told Ron how to do it.

Why didn't Fred, George, and Ron realize the odds against Molly not noticing their disappearance, between Molly's clearly early schedule and the family clock? Perhaps the trip took longer than expected.

Is anyone else disturbed by the implications from Percy receiving twelve O.W.L.s? (For the record, we know that both Bill and Barty Crouch, Jr. did as well). Considering Hermione had to have a Time-Turner, and JKR said on Pottermore that Hermione's was the only one ever to enter Hogwarts, it seems hard to believe that others could achieve 12 O.W.L.s. Even if Hermione's year had scheduling conflicts not present in Percy's or others', the workload was tremendous for Hermione. Granted, we see Percy stressed by his exams in SS/PS, but not nearly proportionate to Hermione's stress in third year with 12 courses: does this speak more about the characters or about an inconsistency?

It's interesting how shocked McGonagall is by Harry and George's "Muggle dueling" after Slytherin's Quidditch defeat in OotP when Arthur resorts to fists, not spells, to fight Lucius in Flourish and Blotts. I wonder what repercussions Arthur had for public fighting - especially as a Ministry official fighting a reputed member of society. It does not seem to have generated any 'conflict of interest' claims when he was allowed to search Malfoy Manor using the Muggle Protection Act.

Postby **Poppy** » November 30th, 2014, 2:45 pm

Fantastic thoughts like usual MrSleepyHead.

MrSleepyHead wrote:Why didn't Fred, George, and Ron realize the odds against Molly not noticing their disappearance, between Molly's clearly early schedule and the family clock? Perhaps the trip took longer than expected.

I agree, the whole thing seemed pretty badly planned to me, especially since we know how good Fred and George are at devising plans which break the rules. I think perhaps they were so excited to rescue Harry and use the flying car for the first time that they didn't think the plan through. Or maybe they did know deep down that Molly would find them out but decided it's worth it to rescue Harry? I mean I can't really think of how they could of done it without Molly noticing, but make that it because I'm useless at making plans to break the rules. xD

MrSleepyHead wrote:There seem to be more sophisticated methods of magical tracking, such as that used by the Weasleys' clock, Hagrid/Dumbledore to address Harry's first year Hogwarts letters so specifically, or the Marauder's Map. To my knowledge, we aren't told what exactly these are. We know of the Trace and Homenum Revelio: perhaps the theory behind the latter can be personalized for specific people in some manner.

But since Harry didn't technically consent to this tracking, isn't that an invasion of privacy again? xD I mean, does that mean you could stalk anyone in the Wizarding World without getting into trouble?

MrSleepyHead wrote:We don't know the specifics about how the Vanishing Cabinet works: it could be that the user has to say a spell to transport between a pair. When Montague was shoved in the broken Hogwarts one in OotP he could hear goings-on from both sides, but that is not altogether informative when it was broken. Regardless, nothing happened (or could have happened), as I see it, because Harry did not close the doors completely: he left "a small crack to peer through."

Ohh okay, missed the bit about leaving a small crack.

I find all your thought on the Floo Network really interesting and would love to one day know the answers.

MrSleepyHead wrote:Is anyone else disturbed by the implications from Percy receiving twelve O.W.L.s? (For the record, we know that both Bill and Barty Crouch, Jr. did as well). Considering Hermione had to have a Time-Turner, and JKR said on Pottermore that Hermione's was the only one ever to enter Hogwarts, it seems hard to believe that others could achieve 12 O.W.L.s. Even if Hermione's year had scheduling conflicts not present in Percy's or others', the workload was tremendous for Hermione. Granted, we see Percy stressed by his exams in SS/PS, but not nearly proportionate to Hermione's stress in third year with 12 courses: does this speak more about the characters or about an inconsistency?

We know from Half Blood Prince that Hermione got 11 OWLS without using a timeturner. Does Percy getting twelve O.W.L's suggest that he is smarter? Or maybe he didn't pass the twelve that he did as well as Hermione passed hers? Also Hermione had a lot more to worry about such as Umbridge, DA and more. Probably is just an inconsistency though.

MrSleepyHead wrote:It's interesting how shocked McGonagall is by Harry and George's "Muggle dueling" after Slytherin's Quidditch defeat in OotP when Arthur resorts to fists, not spells, to fight Lucius in Flourish and Blotts. I wonder what repercussions Arthur had for public fighting - especially as a Ministry official fighting a reputed member of society. It does not seem to have generated any 'conflict of interest' claims when he was allowed to search Malfoy Manor using the Muggle Protection Act.

That's a really good point. Maybe because other than Perkins he is really the only one that knows anything about and is interested in working at The Misuse of Muggle Artefacts they can't afford to get him into too much trouble? He probably got a warning or something? Also I don't remember where but I'm pretty sure somewhere it says that Arthur is very well liked, so that probably helped. You would think someone would say something about a conflict of interest though...

MrSleepyHead wrote:Anagram Solutions
Spoiler: show
1. Ottery St. Catchpole
2. Knockturn Alley
3. Holidays with Hags
4. Celestina Warbeck
5. Hand of Glory

Congratulations! 250 PFF points will be rewarded.

I've put it in spoilers just incase anyone else wants to give it a go, hope you don't mind.

Postby **Jag17** » December 2nd, 2014, 1:21 pm

Hey guys not an member of nerds but always read what you guys say in here then leave but after reading what mr Sleepy head said I wanted to add my own comments hope you guys don't mind.

MrSleepyHead wrote: The advantages included in the Floo Network information on Pottermore include transport of children with little fear of injury, but what about severe misplacement based upon poor speech? What do speech-impaired wizards/witches do about Floo Powder? How does the Floo Network deal with strong accents and languages (the same question could be said of incantations, with which we know enunciation is important)?

Your statement Mr Sleepyhead has always been on my mind since I saw the movies and read Harry potter since I do have a speech disability but after many years of speech therapy I am better but still have a accent so always curious if I would had been able to go to hogwarts since speech is really important for spells and for the floo powder. I'm sure I would had ended up at some werid places if I had to do use the floo network lol . Don't think Hogwarts has a speech therapist so I would had to practice saying the spells by myself but I am sure I would had gotten help by other hufflepuffs but don't know if that would had been good enough. But also we don't know if they could be a potion or a spell to help people who has these type of speech problems. But anyway thanks for sharing your questions happy to know I am not the only who has thought about this.

Postby **Riverfirebolt** » December 9th, 2014, 5:05 pm

My answers...

1) Did you enjoy ‘The Burrow’? Did you enjoy your introduction to The Burrow?
Loved the bits in this chapter about the burrow and I especially like the comparison between the Burrow and Privet Drive as it was in the last few chapters.

2) Did you enjoy ‘At Flourish and Blotts’?
I do like seeing another side of the wizard world. And the bits with Lockhart made me laugh.
I do like all the bits that appear again later in the series...Mundungus Fletcher, the Vanishing Cabinet, Hand of Glory, Opal necklace etc.

3) Isn’t floo powder an invasion of privacy? Unless I understand it wrong, if you’re connected to the system you can floo to anyone else’s house if they are also connected. Also, when you are going to your destination you get a peek at other people’s houses. What if they are getting changed or something?
I do agree it could be quite an invasion to just appear in someone's fireplace, maybe as well as disconnecting from the network, you can also limit who can access your home that way? But I think generally the wizard community is so small, they have to rely on being polite. It's the same with apparition as Dumbledore tells Harry in a later book.
I think the accidentally seeing someone getting changed... I think most people seem to have either a kitchen or sitting room fireplace connected...not a bedroom or a bathroom. Plus I think if you grow up with the floo network, you learn not to get changed in front of a fireplace connected to it, same as we don't get changed in front of a window with the curtains open.
The pronunciation bit confuses me. I wonder if with spells as well, it is more the intent behind it and the actual incantation is more a way of focusing the power of the spell. If it was just the words and the wand movements then given a wand muggles or squibs could do magic, which obviously isn't the case.
Also think it must be partly intent or why would Mr Weasley say they thought Harry may have gone one grate too far?
If it was just the words Mispronouncing Diagon Alley wouldn't take them to Knockturn Alley surely as they don't sound the same.
Also if floo powder can be used to move more than one person why not send Harry with Arthur his first time?
I do like the contrast with the way wizards can travel to each others houses, via floo powder, and the way muggles do....Mr and Mrs Mason so formal when they visit the Dursleys.

4) How did Dumbledore know Harry was the Weasley’s? Did Miss Figg’s tell him?
There must be ways of keeping track of people magically. It's the same with owls, how do they always know where to find people? And if this is possible how come the Ministry can't find Sirius?
I have a feeling that Dumbledore put some kind of charm on Harry as a baby so he could magically monitor him, sort of a magic tracking device.

5) “small explosions from Fred and George’s bedroom were considered perfectly normal.” In the last book, Fred and George complained about receiving the notice about no underage magic outside of Hogwarts. Yet doesn’t the above quote suggest that they have been using underage magic?
Have to say just because they get a letter warning them not to use magic out of school doesn't mean the twins are going to obey it.
Plus there is Mr Sleepys point about wizard kids being monitored by their parents not by the Ministry.
I get the feeling they hoped the letter was forgotten as that would mean they could then argue with their parents and try and talk their way out of trouble.

6) Did Harry go into a vanishing cabinet? If he did, why didn’t he vanish?
He did
Like Mr Sleepy said, he left the door open a crack.
Also it seems Vanishing cabinets have a twin, this one was connected to the one at Hogwarts which we know was broken, so he couldn't have travelled there anyway.
Talking of vanishing cabinets...after Draco used them to get Death Eaters into the school why wasn't it removed?
Sorry probably a question for book seven when we get there...

Puzzle (Angrams):
I know Mr Sleepy did them first, but I did them myself, so figured I would post them anyway.

Spoiler: show

And Mr Sleepy's questions...

I was surprised Ron could pick locks...also after the twins said picking locks the muggle way was slow I was surprised Ron picked Hedwig's cage lock in just a moment.

Don't think the twins had any idea how long the journey would take really. And probably wouldn't have let that stop them even if they had.

I noticed that about Percy's owls too. Maybe he had a timeturner too but was more careful in keeping it secret. There is no way Percy would tell Ron if the Professors told him not to.

Some other points...

Does anyone else find it strange the Weasleys have two unique clocks?
This one and then later on we see one with a hand on for each family telling where they all are.

I did wonder at Arthur writing laws, he didn't seem high up enough in the Ministry for that...then read your point Poppy about no-one else caring about his department and figured this may be why. Nobody else wants to bother with laws about misuse of muggle artifacts

Going back to the picking locks thing...if the twins can pick locks why not just enter Harry's house through the front door? Why rip metal bars off the window, risking waking the Dursleys and the whole street? And talking of neighbours...didn't the Dursleys neighbours question the bars?

Was anyone else a bit concerned about the gnomes?
The Weasleys seemed a good family to me, but even they think it is ok to pick gnomes up by their feet, swing them around their heads and throw them as hard as they can.
Seems to be another example of how wizards treat other magic creatures badly. See them as inferior.

Also I'm a bit confused at wizard money...Arthur runs a department at the Ministry, can't afford new books, but can afford to own a paddock in Devon, where we assume Ottery St Catchpole is, that is used mainly for his kids to practice Quidditch. May not mean much to some of you, but a paddock big enough to play Quidditch on in Devon would cost a small fortune.
Then how come Lily and James left Harry a small fortune? Don't remember hearing their families were really rich and they died three years after leaving Hogwarts...how did they get all that money?

Never really thought about the whole invasion of privacy issue before, but finding it quite disturbing now.

Being able to apparate into someones house or travel there by floo network seems a bit strange to us, I think the system is based on wizards sort of opting out, you can choose to disconnect from the floo network, you can set wards up to stop oeople apparating etc.
Maybe they are particularly open during these books as they have been so used to secrecy and suspicion during the first wizarding war?
The trace does worry me though. It seems the sort of thing that we get nowadays with security cameras. Justified by it is to keep people safe and if you aren't doing anything wrong you don't need to worry.

And sorry to bring back my sock obsession... But I love the contrast here with Molly fussing over Harry's socks in contrast to the first book where Harry found his socks under his bed and had to brush a spider off them...

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